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	<title>Comments on: Our Place in the Universe</title>
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	<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/03/24/our-place-in-the-universe/</link>
	<description>The Big Questions &#124; Tackling the Problems of Philosophy with Ideas from Mathematics, Economics, and Physics</description>
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		<title>By: Leo Shine</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/03/24/our-place-in-the-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-4648</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Shine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=2873#comment-4648</guid>
		<description>Maybe the reason why intelligence didn&#039;t evolve on the other continents wasn&#039;t just because of need for intelligence in those areas but more because the evolution of intelligence is rare enough that the chance that two intelligent species evolving separately on these different continents within a timeframe which meant that one did not colonize the other continent taking the niche for intelligence in that area. This explanation does not conflict with the convergentist view of intelligence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the reason why intelligence didn&#8217;t evolve on the other continents wasn&#8217;t just because of need for intelligence in those areas but more because the evolution of intelligence is rare enough that the chance that two intelligent species evolving separately on these different continents within a timeframe which meant that one did not colonize the other continent taking the niche for intelligence in that area. This explanation does not conflict with the convergentist view of intelligence.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/03/24/our-place-in-the-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-4618</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=2873#comment-4618</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re looking at the wrong part of Katja Grace&#039;s (paraphrased) argument: &quot;The fact that we’re around suggests that intelligent life is likely to be common.&quot; This isn&#039;t really key.

&quot;If they haven’t succeeded, why should we?&quot; This, I think, is the real root of an answer to &quot;Will we reach the stars or not?&quot;

It doesn&#039;t matter whether there is only 1 species in the universe capable of doing math or one around every star if there isn&#039;t a method to transfer between stars in a reasonable amount of time. The real question is if it&#039;s possible to travel the breadth of the universe in less than the time it will be in existence?

Colonizing the universe is a somewhat meaningless question, it&#039;s neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for the existence of other intelligent life. And the universe is so vast, there are so many stars, that occupying even a significant fraction of the inevitable planets seems implausible. Even given instantaneous transportation and infinite physical resources, how long would it take us to to generate a large enough population to put representatives on planets around 10^22 stars, or even a sparse sample like 10^10?

I think a far more interesting question would be &quot;Will we ever explore our galaxy,&quot; or &quot;Will our species outlive our sun?&quot; But these are much harder to answer, I think, than &quot;Will we be able to populate infinity.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re looking at the wrong part of Katja Grace&#8217;s (paraphrased) argument: &#8220;The fact that we’re around suggests that intelligent life is likely to be common.&#8221; This isn&#8217;t really key.</p>
<p>&#8220;If they haven’t succeeded, why should we?&#8221; This, I think, is the real root of an answer to &#8220;Will we reach the stars or not?&#8221;</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter whether there is only 1 species in the universe capable of doing math or one around every star if there isn&#8217;t a method to transfer between stars in a reasonable amount of time. The real question is if it&#8217;s possible to travel the breadth of the universe in less than the time it will be in existence?</p>
<p>Colonizing the universe is a somewhat meaningless question, it&#8217;s neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for the existence of other intelligent life. And the universe is so vast, there are so many stars, that occupying even a significant fraction of the inevitable planets seems implausible. Even given instantaneous transportation and infinite physical resources, how long would it take us to to generate a large enough population to put representatives on planets around 10^22 stars, or even a sparse sample like 10^10?</p>
<p>I think a far more interesting question would be &#8220;Will we ever explore our galaxy,&#8221; or &#8220;Will our species outlive our sun?&#8221; But these are much harder to answer, I think, than &#8220;Will we be able to populate infinity.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Weekend Roundup at Steven Landsburg &#124; The Big Questions: Tackling the Problems of Philosophy with Ideas from Mathematics, Economics, and Physics</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/03/24/our-place-in-the-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-4541</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekend Roundup at Steven Landsburg &#124; The Big Questions: Tackling the Problems of Philosophy with Ideas from Mathematics, Economics, and Physics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 07:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=2873#comment-4541</guid>
		<description>[...] Really now. Are we  alone in the Universe? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Really now. Are we  alone in the Universe? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Al V.</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/03/24/our-place-in-the-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-4511</link>
		<dc:creator>Al V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 13:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=2873#comment-4511</guid>
		<description>The universe is a very big place.  It is quite plausible (perhaps likely) that there is intelligent life out there, but so far away that we can&#039;t detect it.  It could be millions or even billions of light years away.  For that matter, what percentage of our own galaxy can we see?  If there is intelligent life on the other side of our galaxy, directly across the galactic center, our &quot;line of sight&quot; is blocked by the center.  How much of the universe can we reasonably think we&#039;re scanning?  one billionth of one percent?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The universe is a very big place.  It is quite plausible (perhaps likely) that there is intelligent life out there, but so far away that we can&#8217;t detect it.  It could be millions or even billions of light years away.  For that matter, what percentage of our own galaxy can we see?  If there is intelligent life on the other side of our galaxy, directly across the galactic center, our &#8220;line of sight&#8221; is blocked by the center.  How much of the universe can we reasonably think we&#8217;re scanning?  one billionth of one percent?</p>
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		<title>By: To SIA or not to SIA? &#171; Robert Wiblin</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/03/24/our-place-in-the-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-4498</link>
		<dc:creator>To SIA or not to SIA? &#171; Robert Wiblin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 07:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=2873#comment-4498</guid>
		<description>[...] Our place in the Universe [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Our place in the Universe [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Wiblin</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/03/24/our-place-in-the-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-4489</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Wiblin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 05:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=2873#comment-4489</guid>
		<description>Maybe the SIA principle used by Katja also shows the many worlds interpretation of quantum physics is probably correct: http://robertwiblin.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/news-flash-multiverse-theory-proven-right/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the SIA principle used by Katja also shows the many worlds interpretation of quantum physics is probably correct: <a href="http://robertwiblin.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/news-flash-multiverse-theory-proven-right/" rel="nofollow">http://robertwiblin.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/news-flash-multiverse-theory-proven-right/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ryan M</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/03/24/our-place-in-the-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-4441</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=2873#comment-4441</guid>
		<description>While sitting on one planet in one solar system in one galaxy we haven&#039;t seen any signs of inter-planetary colonization.  We can therefore assume that, in a theoretically infinite universe, there have been no successful attempts at inter-planetary colonization.

Point #2 sounds rock solid to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While sitting on one planet in one solar system in one galaxy we haven&#8217;t seen any signs of inter-planetary colonization.  We can therefore assume that, in a theoretically infinite universe, there have been no successful attempts at inter-planetary colonization.</p>
<p>Point #2 sounds rock solid to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Biopolitical</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/03/24/our-place-in-the-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-4439</link>
		<dc:creator>Biopolitical</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=2873#comment-4439</guid>
		<description>Lineweaver writes:

&quot;In the absence of humans, other species do not converge on human-like intelligence as a generic solution, or even a specific solution to life’s challenges.&quot;

Replace humans with dolphins or crows or parrots or elephants, and the sentence is equally true (or wrong). For example:

&quot;In the absence of dolphins, other species do not converge on dolphin-like intelligence as a generic solution, or even a specific solution to life’s challenges.&quot;

Replace intelligence with wings:

&quot;In the absence of bats, other species do not converge on bat-like wings as a generic solution, or even a specific solution to life’s challenges.&quot;

Humans are more intelligent than dolphins. Bats are more wingy than flying squirrels. Intelligence has increased in several lineages as a response to the challenges of social life (itself being a response to resource clumpiness or whatever). Winginess has increased in several lineages as a response to the challenges of flying life.

Do these facts tell us anything about intelligence and winginess in other planets? Yes or not? If not, does life on Earth tell us anything at all about life in other planets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lineweaver writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;In the absence of humans, other species do not converge on human-like intelligence as a generic solution, or even a specific solution to life’s challenges.&#8221;</p>
<p>Replace humans with dolphins or crows or parrots or elephants, and the sentence is equally true (or wrong). For example:</p>
<p>&#8220;In the absence of dolphins, other species do not converge on dolphin-like intelligence as a generic solution, or even a specific solution to life’s challenges.&#8221;</p>
<p>Replace intelligence with wings:</p>
<p>&#8220;In the absence of bats, other species do not converge on bat-like wings as a generic solution, or even a specific solution to life’s challenges.&#8221;</p>
<p>Humans are more intelligent than dolphins. Bats are more wingy than flying squirrels. Intelligence has increased in several lineages as a response to the challenges of social life (itself being a response to resource clumpiness or whatever). Winginess has increased in several lineages as a response to the challenges of flying life.</p>
<p>Do these facts tell us anything about intelligence and winginess in other planets? Yes or not? If not, does life on Earth tell us anything at all about life in other planets?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Landsburg</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/03/24/our-place-in-the-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-4431</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Landsburg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=2873#comment-4431</guid>
		<description>Biopolitical:  You might (or might not) have been reading this post without first reading my &quot;Are We Alone&quot; post from the previous day, which dealt with this issue more specifically.  The multiple (intertwined) arguments are that 

a)  Evolution shows no &quot;penchant&quot; for developing animals, let alone animal-like intelligence.  

b)  Terrestrial animals seem to show a penchant for bigger brains, but this tells us very little, because all terrestrial animals are relatively slight variations of a single common ancestor.

c)  Even among terrestrial animals with a penchant for bigger brains, there is no apparent penchant for human-like intelligence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Biopolitical:  You might (or might not) have been reading this post without first reading my &#8220;Are We Alone&#8221; post from the previous day, which dealt with this issue more specifically.  The multiple (intertwined) arguments are that </p>
<p>a)  Evolution shows no &#8220;penchant&#8221; for developing animals, let alone animal-like intelligence.  </p>
<p>b)  Terrestrial animals seem to show a penchant for bigger brains, but this tells us very little, because all terrestrial animals are relatively slight variations of a single common ancestor.</p>
<p>c)  Even among terrestrial animals with a penchant for bigger brains, there is no apparent penchant for human-like intelligence.</p>
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		<title>By: Biopolitical</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/03/24/our-place-in-the-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-4428</link>
		<dc:creator>Biopolitical</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=2873#comment-4428</guid>
		<description>You first argued that animal evolution on Earth lacked a &quot;penchant&quot; for intelligence and that knowing this fact made intelligence in other planets less plausible. Now you say that animal evolution on Earth does have an idiosyncratic &quot;penchant&quot; for fins, wings and intelligence as opposed to some other potential solutions to the challenges of moving through water and air, and of social life. And finally you argue that knowing this fact tells us nothing about intelligence in other planets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You first argued that animal evolution on Earth lacked a &#8220;penchant&#8221; for intelligence and that knowing this fact made intelligence in other planets less plausible. Now you say that animal evolution on Earth does have an idiosyncratic &#8220;penchant&#8221; for fins, wings and intelligence as opposed to some other potential solutions to the challenges of moving through water and air, and of social life. And finally you argue that knowing this fact tells us nothing about intelligence in other planets.</p>
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