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	<title>Comments on: A Little Arithmetic</title>
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	<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/10/07/a-little-arithmetic-2/</link>
	<description>The Big Questions &#124; Tackling the Problems of Philosophy with Ideas from Mathematics, Economics, and Physics</description>
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		<title>By: private schools database in America</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/10/07/a-little-arithmetic-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13773</link>
		<dc:creator>private schools database in America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Oct 2010 23:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=4868#comment-13773</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m trying to think about how I would talk to a middle schooler (or, harder yet, their teachers) about this arithmetic.  

I can imagine asking them to think about a finite number of terms in this series:

M(k) = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... + k

(k is a positive integer)
I&#039;d be very comfortable showing them that a compact way of writing this sum is:

M(k) = k(k+1)/2.

What would you recommend to say at this point, then, to help them understand the sense in which M(k) is equal to -1/12 if you let k grow to infinity?  

(Again, I&#039;m thinking about explaining this to a middle schooler and their teacher.  As you point out, the tricks you use here are hard to justify because other seemingly similar tricks yield different answers.  But the point of this problem is much more important than showing how to &#039;prove&#039; that 2 = 4.)

As an aside, if I talked with them about the sum:

N(k) = 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ... + (-1)^(k-1) 

I could show them that 

N(k) = [1 + (-1)^(k-1)]/2

which is 1 for odd values of k and 0 for even values.  Telling them, then, that we will define the sum as equal to 1/2 for infinite k might seem reasonable in the sense that 1/2 is the average of 0 and 1. 

I&#039;m not disputing the importance of saying that 

M(k) = k(k+1)/2 -&gt; -1/12, 

I&#039;m just curious about the suggestion that this is something to share with middle schoolers and teachers.  Is there a way to help them understand this in the context of middle-school level arithmetic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m trying to think about how I would talk to a middle schooler (or, harder yet, their teachers) about this arithmetic.  </p>
<p>I can imagine asking them to think about a finite number of terms in this series:</p>
<p>M(k) = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + &#8230; + k</p>
<p>(k is a positive integer)<br />
I&#8217;d be very comfortable showing them that a compact way of writing this sum is:</p>
<p>M(k) = k(k+1)/2.</p>
<p>What would you recommend to say at this point, then, to help them understand the sense in which M(k) is equal to -1/12 if you let k grow to infinity?  </p>
<p>(Again, I&#8217;m thinking about explaining this to a middle schooler and their teacher.  As you point out, the tricks you use here are hard to justify because other seemingly similar tricks yield different answers.  But the point of this problem is much more important than showing how to &#8216;prove&#8217; that 2 = 4.)</p>
<p>As an aside, if I talked with them about the sum:</p>
<p>N(k) = 1 &#8211; 1 + 1 &#8211; 1 + &#8230; + (-1)^(k-1) </p>
<p>I could show them that </p>
<p>N(k) = [1 + (-1)^(k-1)]/2</p>
<p>which is 1 for odd values of k and 0 for even values.  Telling them, then, that we will define the sum as equal to 1/2 for infinite k might seem reasonable in the sense that 1/2 is the average of 0 and 1. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not disputing the importance of saying that </p>
<p>M(k) = k(k+1)/2 -&gt; -1/12, </p>
<p>I&#8217;m just curious about the suggestion that this is something to share with middle schoolers and teachers.  Is there a way to help them understand this in the context of middle-school level arithmetic?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/10/07/a-little-arithmetic-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13254</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Oct 2010 17:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=4868#comment-13254</guid>
		<description>I wonder whether your punchline as stated is really your punchline. The sum of all positive integers is not -1/12, so what is the real point of this post?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder whether your punchline as stated is really your punchline. The sum of all positive integers is not -1/12, so what is the real point of this post?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jac</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/10/07/a-little-arithmetic-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13248</link>
		<dc:creator>Jac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Oct 2010 16:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=4868#comment-13248</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see the need to show this to a middle school teacher who barely understand basic algebra!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see the need to show this to a middle school teacher who barely understand basic algebra!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ted</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/10/07/a-little-arithmetic-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13246</link>
		<dc:creator>ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Oct 2010 15:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=4868#comment-13246</guid>
		<description>I guess I don&#039;t understand.  The Riemann zeta function is very cool, but I really don&#039;t see the point if you don&#039;t bring in the complex plane and analyticity.

Divergent series can be manipulated to give lots of funny answers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I don&#8217;t understand.  The Riemann zeta function is very cool, but I really don&#8217;t see the point if you don&#8217;t bring in the complex plane and analyticity.</p>
<p>Divergent series can be manipulated to give lots of funny answers.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/10/07/a-little-arithmetic-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13235</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Oct 2010 11:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=4868#comment-13235</guid>
		<description>This is why I love maths. Thanks for posting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why I love maths. Thanks for posting.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Bayes</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigquestions.com/2010/10/07/a-little-arithmetic-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13115</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Bayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Oct 2010 11:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigquestions.com/?p=4868#comment-13115</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m trying to think about how I would talk to a middle schooler (or, harder yet, their teachers) about this arithmetic.  

I can imagine asking them to think about a finite number of terms in this series:

M(k) = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... + k

(k is a positive integer)
I&#039;d be very comfortable showing them that a compact way of writing this sum is:

M(k) = k(k+1)/2.

What would you recommend to say at this point, then, to help them understand the sense in which M(k) is equal to -1/12 if you let k grow to infinity?  

(Again, I&#039;m thinking about explaining this to a middle schooler and their teacher.  As you point out, the tricks you use here are hard to justify because other seemingly similar tricks yield different answers.  But the point of this problem is much more important than showing how to &#039;prove&#039; that 2 = 4.)

As an aside, if I talked with them about the sum:

N(k) = 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ... + (-1)^(k-1) 

I could show them that 

N(k) = [1 + (-1)^(k-1)]/2

which is 1 for odd values of k and 0 for even values.  Telling them, then, that we will define the sum as equal to 1/2 for infinite k might seem reasonable in the sense that 1/2 is the average of 0 and 1. 

I&#039;m not disputing the importance of saying that 

M(k) = k(k+1)/2 -&gt; -1/12, 

I&#039;m just curious about the suggestion that this is something to share with middle schoolers and teachers.  Is there a way to help them understand this in the context of middle-school level arithmetic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m trying to think about how I would talk to a middle schooler (or, harder yet, their teachers) about this arithmetic.  </p>
<p>I can imagine asking them to think about a finite number of terms in this series:</p>
<p>M(k) = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + &#8230; + k</p>
<p>(k is a positive integer)<br />
I&#8217;d be very comfortable showing them that a compact way of writing this sum is:</p>
<p>M(k) = k(k+1)/2.</p>
<p>What would you recommend to say at this point, then, to help them understand the sense in which M(k) is equal to -1/12 if you let k grow to infinity?  </p>
<p>(Again, I&#8217;m thinking about explaining this to a middle schooler and their teacher.  As you point out, the tricks you use here are hard to justify because other seemingly similar tricks yield different answers.  But the point of this problem is much more important than showing how to &#8216;prove&#8217; that 2 = 4.)</p>
<p>As an aside, if I talked with them about the sum:</p>
<p>N(k) = 1 &#8211; 1 + 1 &#8211; 1 + &#8230; + (-1)^(k-1) </p>
<p>I could show them that </p>
<p>N(k) = [1 + (-1)^(k-1)]/2</p>
<p>which is 1 for odd values of k and 0 for even values.  Telling them, then, that we will define the sum as equal to 1/2 for infinite k might seem reasonable in the sense that 1/2 is the average of 0 and 1. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not disputing the importance of saying that </p>
<p>M(k) = k(k+1)/2 -&gt; -1/12, </p>
<p>I&#8217;m just curious about the suggestion that this is something to share with middle schoolers and teachers.  Is there a way to help them understand this in the context of middle-school level arithmetic?</p>
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